A comment i posted on

  • some site
  • who unfortunately is still caught in the patriarchial mode of antiquity. I am sorry that I am somewhat hot headed about this issue – but it is one of the major concerns i have for the church who continue to downgrade women’s callings, and value in the body of Christ. Until you remove this from your thinking you will always have a lesser view of women regardless of how you try to skirt around the issue. when push comes to shove, when the argument is laid out, in this view men were just created with better stuff. I whole heartedly disagree that God created us in such a way, it is outside of his charcter to create part of his beloved creation A and the other part B. They are both split from the same substance A to become AB and BA.

    Here is my rant.
    Paul also supports and affirms slavery. I think we should start keeping slaves again then. or wait is it the case that in Antioch where Timothy was pastor, the situation was one where Paul felt it best that woman at that time and place not be the teachers? could it possibly be the case that he was talking to a particular social situation, time, and people group? The goddess of fertility not only had a temple in Antioch at the time Paul writes this but it was one of the biggest temples in the mediteranean world at the time. Further this cult had a large following and deep influence into the lives and families that TImothy was pastoring. Think of the implications and message that one would give to kids who live in Skid Row versus those who live in the rich white hills of Santa Barbara? I don’t think they are going to sound the same, or talk about the same issues.

    Again – why is it so diffcult to think that Paul could have meant for the time being Timothy keep everything under tight wraps until there is real Christian disciplship and teaching taking place (by the way the place where it talks about deacons having one wife is also in Timothy – same group of people, same issues – so wouldn’t we be surprised if he said something other than that?).

    NOw what about those crazy women in Corinthians that are prophesying? Or what about the female deacon as

  • Lazlo
  • speaks of, not to mention Junia (falsley translated Junias) the female apostle? shes not talked about too much in sunday school, but there are no records anywhere of men named junia in the first century Biblical or otherwise, but there are hundreds of women who have the name Junia (which is the greek).

    but then again if we want to lock ourselves into the culture and history of two letters out of all the NT – what do we do with the people who want to change those two letters to something like Philemon or Ephesians that give room and allowance to slavery? but then again isn’t misogyny just another form of slavery? So we men can keep all the control?

    and there is nothing said about Jesus, who was a much better example of honoring women and giving them places of promience in his own ministry than we are at following his example. and what about the holy spirit who is calling multiples of women to leadership, not only do they know that are they being called but so do the community of beleivers around them who are affirming many of these women to do what God calls them to do. When pieces of Scriptures do not line up with our everyday interact with the spirit we must question our own readings of the scripture and approach them again with a fresh mind. maybe it is the case that the Spirit is mroe flexible than us.

    When we buy into this patriarchial mindset, we fail our wives in the same way Adam failed Eve. Had he heeded God’s word and protected her, showing mutuality in his relationship with her he would have been able to keep her from the lies of the Serpent which ultimately led to her and him sinning. Instead of mutuality, holding one another up to the same position subordinate to one another – Adam made himself subservient to her, and in the process of relenquishing his own mutuality in their relationship gave up his responsibility to b ein co-humanity with his wife – thus failing to be the right kind of father for all generations to come.

    It is when men try to change roles – whether by making the woman subservient or becoming lazy and allowing themselves to be subservient that we break the co-humanity relationship that God created us to be in. This does not just apply to marriage, as man and woman are created co-equally prior to the advent of marriage.

    for me. my wife and i are servants of one another, and I for one if i ever minister in a body of believers will demand that at least one woman be in leadership with me – because they are the other half of understanding and knowing the whole of creation.